Looking For a DebateVādatthikasutta

“Mendicants, take any mendicant who truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’.“Yo hi koci, bhikkhave, bhikkhu ‘idaṁ dukkhan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti …pe… An ascetic or brahmin might come from the east, west, north, or south wanting to debate, seeking a debate, thinking:‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti, puratthimāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā vādatthiko vādagavesī: ‘I’ll refute their doctrine!’ It’s simply impossible for them to legitimately make that mendicant shake or rock or tremble.‘vādamassa āropessāmī’ti, taṁ vata sahadhammena saṅkampessati vā sampakampessati vā sampacālessati vāti—netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.

Suppose there was a stone post, sixteen feet long.Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, silāyūpo soḷasa kukkuko. Eight feet were buried underground, and eight above ground.Tassassu aṭṭha kukku heṭṭhā nemaṅgamā, aṭṭha kukku uparinemassa. Even if violent storms were to blow up out of the east, the west, the north, and the south, they couldn’t make it shake or rock or tremble.Puratthimāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya bhusā vātavuṭṭhi, neva saṅkampeyya na sampakampeyya na sampacāleyya; pacchimāya cepi disāya …pe… uttarāya cepi disāya …pe… dakkhiṇāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya bhusā vātavuṭṭhi, neva saṅkampeyya na sampakampeyya na sampacāleyya. Why is that?Taṁ kissa hetu? It’s because that stone post is firmly embedded, with deep foundations.Gambhīrattā, bhikkhave, nemassa sunikhātattā silāyūpassa.

In the same way, take any mendicant who truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’.Evameva kho, bhikkhave, yo hi koci bhikkhu ‘idaṁ dukkhan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti …pe… ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti; An ascetic or brahmin might come from the east, west, north, or south wanting to debate, seeking a debate, thinking: ‘I’ll refute their doctrine!’ It’s simply impossible for them to legitimately make that mendicant shake or rock or tremble.puratthimāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā vādatthiko vādagavesī ‘vādamassa āropessāmī’ti, taṁ vata sahadhammena saṅkampessati vā sampakampessati vā sampacālessati vāti—netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati. Why is that?Taṁ kissa hetu? It’s because they have clearly seen the four noble truths.Sudiṭṭhattā, bhikkhave, catunnaṁ ariyasaccānaṁ. What four?Katamesaṁ catunnaṁ? The noble truths of suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the path.Dukkhassa ariyasaccassa …pe… dukkhanirodhagāminiyā paṭipadāya ariyasaccassa.

That’s why you should practice meditation …”Tasmātiha, bhikkhave, ‘idaṁ dukkhan’ti yogo karaṇīyo …pe… ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti yogo karaṇīyo”ti.